Weapon Rebalance mod v3.17, All things having to do with equipment! Options

[ShadoWarrior]

Updated the mod to version 3.17!
(please see first post in thread for download link and changes)

A VERY special thanks to psychophat for the beautiful new menu artwork I've added in this release.

[Gorre]

Hurrah! I always look forward to the next release of your mod. Thank you and all the people helping you .

[Xentax]

Unlike enemies earlier in the game, there is no single weapon that is best against all types of SGs. I deliberately made the SGs have complementary defenses. What one type is weak against another may be almost or completely immune to. You will need to carry and use a variety of weapons.

Explosives and fire work best against SG Defenders. Use lasers and plasma versus SG Hovers. And use warp vs. Clouds and Spiders. Lasers are best against the Stars, while warp & explosives are about half as effective as lasers against Stars. The one thing you cannot use, at all, are conventional (regular or AP) bullets or any sort of blade -- even Duralloy. Such kinetic-based attacks literally bounce off. Which means that all those kick-ass gauss weapons you have are useless against the SGs. Have fun!

If it's not too hard, could you update the SG "autopsy" research entries with this information? I can write up descriptions that combine the existnig physical descriptions with the revised defenses/vulnerabilities, if you like...

[ShadoWarrior]

If it's not too hard, could you update the SG "autopsy" research entries with this information? I can write up descriptions that combine the existnig physical descriptions with the revised defenses/vulnerabilities, if you like...

Perhaps you should check those entries again -- after you verify that you have properly followed the mod's install procedure and have updated your Localization file. I added the info 5 versions ago (v3.12) when I changed the SGs.

[Xentax]

Urgh, I misspoke. The actual glossary is indeed up to date - what I had kept flipping to was the research summary on the medical lab itself - it didn't really hit me until I went back and checked that these two are not, in fact, the same text. The research summaries are still out of date, but that's not that big a deal.

Sorry. Now that I know where the full (and accurate) data is, that's more than adequate.

[JSLfromBx]

Bug:
the HUD is not working, I made several test with soldier using no add on and soldier using a HUD, and there is no difference in their chance to hit a target, not even 1% more for the HUD.There is no helmet add on in the original game that increase accuracy, so maybe the game just won't allow it?

I also made some test with a gyrostabilizer and a aim point finder, and the gyro increase accuracy a lot more than the aimpoint finder does, so maybe you need to look into that, not sure if it's supose to work that way.

You minigun his somewhat broken, the one that use 5.56 ammo, the glossary says it has great range and accuracy, but actualy the range is 17, half the range of an M60 and accuracy is of course horrible with such a short range, don't think it'supose to be that way.

Balance Issue:

Star ghost resistance needs to be reduced, you mod is supose to increase the fun, not destroy it, constant starghost attacks were already a major pain in the a** in the original game, but now, it's just torture, shoting something 100 times before it dies is not my idea of challenge, or fun. Giving Defender 90% resist instead of 95% would be a huge improvment.

Secondly your choice of weakness for the defender, is well, surprising to say the least, the only difference betwen Fire and plasma is that plasma burn at least 10 000°C while normal fire is around 1000 or 1500°C, so I don't want to be rude but giving them more resistance to plasma than normal fire is just dumb, honestly. It would be like giving a mob 95% resist against Hard and 70% resist versus soft, not logical at all.

[ShadoWarrior]

You minigun his somewhat broken, the one that use 5.56 ammo, the glossary says it has great range and accuracy, but actualy the range is 17, half the range of an M60 and accuracy is of course horrible with such a short range, don't think it'supose to be that way.

It is NOT bropken. Have you tried it in the actual tactical game? I'm certain you haven't. The displayed range factors recoil, something you'd know if you had read this entire thread, or done some research on these forums before posting.

Secondly your choice of weakness for the defender, is well, surprising to say the least, the only difference betwen Fire and plasma is that plasma burn at least 10 000°C while normal fire is around 1000 or 1500°C, so I don't want to be rude but giving them more resistance to plasma than normal fire is just dumb, honestly. It would be like giving a mob 95% resist against Hard and 70% resist versus soft, not logical at all.

Plasma is ionized matter. Ionized matter has magnetic properties. SGs have excellent EM defenses. Period.

PS - plasmas do not 'burn'. Burning is combustion, a chemical reaction. The 'temperature' of a plasma (which has no upper limit) is a measure of the kinetic energy of the plasma's atoms. If the plasma is diffuse, as some are in space, you'd actually not notice anything unusual (except, perhaps freezing or vacuum effects). The weaponized plasma stream is concentrated, but that's besides the point, since it's also magnetic.

PPS - before you call something 'dumb' you might want to educate yourself first on the subject. (My original university studies were in astrophysics.)

[Casper]

I think I found one... On my glossary, there are 2 heavy armors, but no duraloy heavy armor...

No starghosts yet, I´m leveling up my squad, before entering the cultists hideout... and gauss rocks! I use gauss, when I need a captured I use the ultra sonic rifle, but I´m storing minimis and AP ammos for the Star Ghosts (as you said they all are a little bit vulnerable to this)...

Anyway, your mod is amazing!

[ShadoWarrior]

AP ammo is useless versus SGs. AP ammo is NOT the same as explosive (XP) ammo.

As for Duralloy armor not being listed in the Glossary, I don't know (or remember, if I once did know) how to fix that. Sorry.

[JSLfromBx]

Jeez, of course plasma is ionized matter, it's not a plasma if it's not ionized. So what? because it's ionized then it's dangerous because of it's magnetic properties, my god that's just pathetic really. Plasma is dangerous because it's exceedingly hot, the ionization is a an inevitable consequence of the high temperature of the plasma, it's not the point of creating a bubble of plasma, not for weapons anyway.

Actually you don't even design plasma weapon because you want to shot plasma balls, you design plasma weapons because you want to shower your enemies with something so hot it will melt their armor instantly and incerate any living tissue, and plasma is one of the way to accomplish that .

The easiest way to produce plasma is to heat up gas so much that the electron and the nucleus become dissociated, that's where the ionization and subsequent electromagnetic properties comes from. The only use of the plasma high susceptibility to electromagnetic field (in weapons design at leas) is that you can easily contain it with a magnetic field, otherwise, the plasma would destroy whatever device produced it.

Today technology can already produced very high density plasma with a temperature of several million Kelvin ( but not sustain them for very long, that's the job of the project ITER) and all you're a afraid about is it's magnetic properties? Oh Lord......

One of the weapon grade type of plasma that exist naturally in the universe is found in our sun .It's core is actually made of plasma , very dense, very hot plasma , about 10 million Kelvin and a density of 10e30 particules per cubic metre . If you ever come into contact with a plasma stream, the tesla charge will be the least of your worries. Basing plasma damage on it's electromagnetic properties is like judging the damage of a Vulcan auto canon based only on the radiation poisoning of the depleted uranium munition......

About the burn comment, good job showing your understanding of the matter, my usage of the word burn has nothing to do with how the weapon work, it describe how the target react to the weapon, so yes, sorry for you but Plasma does burn, and laser does burn as well.

Actually only cold plasma really burn in the typical sense of the word, flames being a type of cold plasma, right I almost forgot you don't know that good old candle flames are also a type of plasma, just low temperature one, lightings too are a type of plasma, around 30000 Kelvin.
Maybe you haven't noticed but there is only 2 big type of lethal damage in the game, mechanical (soft bullet, AP bullet, blades, concussion , warp) and burn, or I should say to be more professional, thermal damage (plasma, laser and napalm or whatever is the alien equivalent is ).That's why I said plasma burns the target, it got nothing to do with plasma physics and properties.

Real hyper energy plasma (if we can ever makes weapons with them, unlikely honestly, creating the plasma is easy, maintaining it for a few second is a lot harder, and delivering it to the target, well no one has an idea on how we could do it as of now) would not just burn, it would vaporize everything in the truest sense of the word, organic matter, composite, metal, everything, yes even titanium will turn into gas if heated above 4000 Kelvin. The same result could be achieved by a very powerful laser . Actually particle beam weapon would also do about the same thing.

Just about every energy weapon is about increasing the kinetic energy of the targeted atoms and molecule until the point where they no longer retain there original shape/phase/ properties and the target cease to function properly.

Anyway I don't care much about aftershock anymore, only waiting for afterlight.

PS you would looks much more competent in physics if you hadn't completely forget about the conservation of momentum when designing rail gun weapons, it really put a hit in your credibility.

[Nusku]

If you don't like the current values in SW's mod, you could of course just change them yourself using notepad and vfstool. When you find the values that you like, let us know what they are. All the instructions are at the top of the modding forum (and if I can manage it, I'm sure that anyone else would find it quite easy).

[ShadoWarrior]

Plasma is dangerous because it's exceedingly hot

No, it's dangerous because it's ionized matter. You should do some study into the effects of bombarding normal matter with ions. Even a "cold" plasma is unhealthy. The higher the concentration, the more dangerous it is.

you design plasma weapons because you want to shower your enemies with something so hot it will melt their armor instantly and incerate any living tissue, and plasma is one of the way to accomplish that

Actually, that's not how the weapons of the future are designed. The best weapons are those that bypass armor. A gamma-ray laser would kill the occupants of a tank before the ionization effects of the beam melted any armor. A so-called "neutron" bomb works on the same principle. Particle beam weapons aren't "hot". But the ionization effects when the beam hits armor will disintegrate matter. Just because something looks like it's burning or melting doesn't mean it actually is at the atomic level. Burning/melting is a secondary effect (ie: by-product) of what is really happening.

The easiest way to produce plasma is to heat up gas so much that the electron and the nucleus become dissociated

Incorrect. The easiest way is to run a very high electric current through a gas. You still seem to have a problem understanding that "heat" has very little to do with plasmas. It's all about ionization. You do NOT create a plasma by heating gas (which would be grossly inefficient, and more importantly, impossible since no known chemical reaction burns hot enough to ionize atoms). You create plasmas by stripping atoms of their electrons.

PS you would looks much more competent in physics if you hadn't completely forget about the conservation of momentum when designing rail gun weapons, it really put a hit in your credibility.

Do the math first, before you speak. A few grams of Duralloy flechette even moving at Mach 15-25 generates insignificant recoil compared to conventional rifle bullets (Mach 3). The damage my gauss weapons inflict is not based on kinetic energy. It's based on penetration and subsequent hydrostatic shock trauma (or torn up circuitry in the case of WG scouts). Just because the AS game engine likes to knock people flying dozens of meters doesn't mean it's the way the weapon would actually work in reality.

[Xentax]

SW, I agree with your comments on the railgun, but it still would generate SOME recoil, correct? I'm not sure exactly how to calculate it (from what I've read, you can't talk purely in terms of momentum or kinetic energy).

Plus, of course, the fact that they penetrate is because duralloy is a hypothetical material that resists fragmentation even when such a small mass strikes a hard target at mach 25. I think you'd agree that no known existing material has this property, or am I putting words in your mouth?

(Along similar lines, did you see the episode of Mythbusters where they fired high-powered rifles into water and measured their penetration?)

[ShadoWarrior]

Xentax, yes, the firing of a railgun would, of course, generate some recoil (due to Newton's Third Law). However, since the force applied to accelerate the flechette takes place along the entire length of the barrel (rather than instantaneously from an explosion as in a regular firearm), that incrementally-applied force results in a smaller recoil as felt by the weapon. The firer, however, does feel the (normal) full force of the recoil, because even though the recoil is spread out over a few milliseconds, the human time perception won't notice the difference.

And yes, Duralloy is a "magic" material. Though carbon, in the forms of fullerenes and diamonds do have some of the properties I'm ascribing to Duralloy.

Finally, I did see that (and all other) Mythbusters episodes. It could have been calculated if the show was more math-inclined. An object with a given amount of kinetic energy fired into a substance with a given amount of resistance (friction) per centimeter (air, then water). Also factoring in the aero/hydrodynamic shape of the bullets on the drag, surface tension effects of the air/water interface, and (of course) the pull of gravity. Anyone who also watches one of the various CSI shows (such as CSI:Miami) where they use a water-filled tank for ballistics testing knows that bullets only travel (at most) a couple of feet in water. One of the few things Hollywood ever gets right is when a "good guy" dives into water and bad guys spray that spot with submachinegun fire the good guy almost never gets hit. heh

[Casper]

I remembered you, Shadow Warrior saying that you wanted more itens suggestions, and less new weapons and armors suggestions on the game. And that new itens were hard to be created, so we would have to find new ways to use old effects. So, I would like to help the mod with some ideas. But, could you say somthing about what you tried that didn´t work or that apparently don´t work, that drawed your attention? in effects, mechanics, maybe we could have some ideas, from yours!

One that I liked, was the idea of the "sound making dispositive", thatyou could leave on a place and atract monsters... but it would stop making sounds if there wasn´t any one by there... I thought about a kind of "sound grenade". You throw, and it would keep making sounds, atracting the monsters...

And I talked about the armor, because I think I saw a duraloy armor there, and could be a little detail forgot by you.

And off topic, you said that the AP bullets won´t work, but the Explosive ones would be a little effective against all, or did I misunderstand?